I feel for you...

[tryphon]

Hi,

I now have a first hand experience of what it's like building a "kit" car.
As you might know I am transforming my Stradale to Group 4 spec. After finishing the body which required almost 2 months work, of which 1 month full-time of polishing and filling which I all did myself, I am currently replacing all the suspension parts with Group 4 equivalents. The work involved is unbelievable. I'm constantly faced with difficulties like machining small parts to make them fit, trying to unscrew old Stradale parts that have been in place for 30 years without damaging them, making special tools to fit/unfit parts, ...
What a nightmare. Before starting this project I was thinking: "Just get the parts needed and fitting/replacing them is straightforward". Not so unfortunately. I had my first sandblasting experience yesterday...
Luckily all the work is carried out in a professional workshop so I have acces to tools, machines and counsel but still.

I do have a question though. I now must enlarge a 2cm hole in the bodywork (rear upper strut mounts where the damper joins the body) to 4cm. The hole has to be cut through 4mm of steel sheet. This is to replace the silent blocks by unibal mountings which are then soldered to the body. Has anyone an idea of a method/tool of doing this job properly and, hopefully, rapidly?

Thanks,
Tryphon

[stableblock]

Hi use a couple of hole saws as follows.

Find one that cuts 20mm on the waste inner and cut a piece of hardwood around an inch and a half thick.

Use this as a mandrel to centre a 40mm hole saw in the original saw (with some oil to lubricate. You should have no problem this way.

You'll get a better result if you mount your drill in a stand and clamp it to the chassis in a suitable place this will ensure that the saw cuts vertically.

Peter ;)

[Randle Roberts]

I have a ton of the unibal mounts for the rear strut (the part that gets soldered in) if you need them.

[tryphon]

I have all the parts I need Randle but thanks, I appreciate. The problem is fitting them, it takes too much time and effort, especially if you are trying to preserve the originals. I hope the car will be ready by Friday, fingers crossed. We are also changing the synchromeshes for Goetze ones so the engine and gearbox are out again.

I might need your help on one issue though, in the future. Do you have a C ratio cascade gear set of which the lower gear can fit the Stradale box shaft?
If not do you have an extra C ratio that you would be interested in selling?
I would then only need to remake the lower gear to make it fit as long as the top gear has a fine spline.

P.S.
Did I tell you that some of my steering parts originate from your stock?

[Randle Roberts]

I thought all the synchromesh rings were by Goetze. I will check my stock of drop gears. I think I have an extra C set but that would be for my souped-up Dino. But I may have and extra lower gear.

[Swamprat33]

There won't be any 'original' Stradale's left at this rate if they are all converted to Group 4 spec cars.

[tryphon]

Quite true the reason being the shortcomings of the Stradale.
Lots of owners upgrade some parts of the car, mainly the front suspension.
I chose the complete transformation path using original parts and carefully keeping and storing the parts removed. That way I can have both...
The only upgrade that has no way back is the rear top strut mount that is now soldered to the body and uses unibal mountings.

[chris.richard]

The only upgrade that has no way back is the rear top strut mount .

The rear arches must make a bit of a mess of the rear body and central tub for restoration.

[tryphon]

I didn't get that Chris, what do you mean?

As for the hole I wanted to drill, destined to the rear strut mount in question, I drilled it this afternoon using the round "saw" suggested. 2 minutes per side using a hand held drill, I couldn't believe how fast it went! :)

[Randle Roberts]

Tryphon,

Can you post a few pics of the rear unibal mount you are installing? I've seen these done a couple of ways. Luigi made a couple of stampings for me that locate at the top of the unibal mount. He said that was the latest/best way they were installed.
One pic of the underneath side would be nice too.

[tryphon]

I'll do that Randle as I'm soldering tomorrow. However, and as you raise the issue, I've been wondering what's the best way to do it myslef.

When you remove the silent blocks of the rear strut mount this leaves you with 2 symmetrical conical recesses, one on the upper side and one on the lower side. I have drilled a 40mm hole at the center of these.
Now the steel part that holds the unibal is cylindrical and at one of its bases (opposite to where the threaded locker goes) has a 1mm high edge whose diameter is 42mm. I'm planning to solder this edge at the level where I drilled.
I hope I'm clear? However if I do that it would leave the complete upper conical part of the strut mounting empty and you would therefore be able to see the recess. Additionally the shock absorbers fitting would be at the bottom of the "hole".
Now on most cars I've seen the finished work looks like in the picture below on which the conical recess is filled by something and the shock absorber's fitting is at the same level as the rear chassis.
Do you have any idea on my interogations above?

[chris.richard]

The rear arches must make a bit of a mess of the rear body and central tub for restoration.

I meant that you have to modify the bodywork in a manner that makes reversion to Stradale shape difficult.

[tryphon]

No because I've changed the complete rear section: rear cover + roof spoiler + tail spoiler + engine louvre + inner wings + taillights + taillights surround + license plate light + boot lid. I kept my complete Stradale bodywork intact and it only requires adjusting to be refitted to the car.

[tryphon]

OK you can see some of the work and parts used of the current transformation of my Stradale to Group 4 spec here:
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Lancia/Stratos4.html

I hope you'll enjoy them as such pictures are nowhere to be found on the Internet.

My Friday schedule is too optimistic but we finished the gearbox, at 2 o'clock this morning, with the new synchromeshes, Randle these are much more sturdy the the originals. As for the suspension I'm waiting on 2 unibal joints which are missing and have been posted last week.
My original back shock absorbers where more than finished and I spent almost a complete day dismounting them and fitting the Bilsteins. Some parts where tightened 30 years ago so to untighten them is not a pleasure, trust me.

[roger001]

Looking at the detailed photos of the suspension makes you realise what an excellent job Gerry has made in recreating the layout of the original chassis/suspension

[tryphon]

What about the rear struts? Are they identical/resembling the original?

[roger001]

Not as easy to comment as there are no pictures of the lower wishbone/tie bar hub carrier assembly. however the method of mounting the strut to the hub carrier is different.

[tryphon]

You can find pictures of those areas at:
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Lancia/Stratos2.html
and
http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/Lancia/Stratos3.html

[chris.richard]

That's some workshop, Tryphon! The cars can't be all yours!

[tryphon]

If only, I only own the Stratos, unfortunately.... The cars present when I took the pictures this evening where:
456, 348, 308 GTB, 308 GT4, Dino 246 GT, Dino 246 GTS, Dino 206 S, Testarossa, Mondia, 911SC, Lancia Kappa.

[roger001]

Rear suspension is indeed very similar apart from the joint between the strut and hub carrier, next time I'm up at the barn I wiil take some photos with the wheels off for comparison.

[stewart]

Hi Guys,

For some reason I cannot access the photo's. I get those little boxes with the red cross in them on every link. I probably should know why this occurs but don't. Any guru's with some suggestions on how to sort this out...I would like to have a look at the photo's!

cheers,

[tryphon]

If you're on a UNIX/LINUX machine it might be because their extension is .JPG and not .jpg

[stewart]

Tryphon, sorry I don't know what that means. I'm just on my home computer..normal desktop, stand alone pc running windows XP. Are there any settings I can change or check?

[tryphon]

Then you have to check your file associations. Make sure .jpg files are associated with an existing application on your computer (photoshop or other image editing softeware). Explorer->tools->folder options->File Types tab.

[tryphon]

Tryphon,

Can you post a few pics of the rear unibal mount you are installing? I've seen these done a couple of ways. Luigi made a couple of stampings for me that locate at the top of the unibal mount. He said that was the latest/best way they were installed.
One pic of the underneath side would be nice too.

Here you go Randle, mounted but unadjusted:

[Arthur]

Holes in plate up to 3mm thick - forget the "hole saws" (these are OK if you use the correct pilot drill in virgin territory, but need a slow speed drill or you'll either hurt yourself or burn the saw down).
No, buy yourself a step-drill with the correct diameter. Cost a few quid, but just about last forever, and even countersink the finished hole for you.
Can also be purchased as tpered cones (no steps) for thos brave enough.

[tryphon]

I used a hole saw in fact, one made to go through stainless steel. It cut at an amazing speed, less than 10 secs per side and looks new! I couldn't believe my eyes...
At that point in the body work 2 sheets meet, each more than 2mm thick. If I was to do this again I would still use a hole saw but I would rather try to fix it to a "fixed" drill for precision. Hand held it was OK but I was 1 mm too far on one side, not too serious.