Avoiding the Q-plate

[Arthur]

Guys,

I note a comment from Andrew Way about avoiding the Q-plate (in the Abingdon 2004 thread).

Mine's on a V-plate.
Its on that plate cos of this :-
The plate was a brand-new registration - plate year same as year of registration, is what I mean - because I managed to persuade the helpful (!) young lady at the Manchester VRO that the only second-hand part was the engine.

Now, the rules say that engine and transmission comprise two components, and you are strictly only allowed one old component in the whole car to still qualify for a new plate, but nevertheless, I got away with the engine/transmission assembly as one unit declared.
More than one old component, and its a Q.
For the rest of it, I had to get a letter from Hugh Carson, despite the receipts from CAE, stating that all the parts supplied were new at time of supply - that was frame, fibreglass, all lighting parts, brake components, radiator, etc. I had to declare the drive shafts, with receipts, the wheels, the seats, the whole shooting match. It was a lot a lot of paperwork I had to take with me.
I even had to supply the paperwork for the engine/box assembly to prove it wasn't new (?) and submit a consent form for the boys in blue to pay me a visit and track all parts if required (never heard from them).
I was seriously worried about the level of detail they wanted receipting, cos my steering column and handbrake assemblies were second-hand as well, but those were not queried.
Makes you wonder if its as much in the gift of the jobsworth at the VRO as the SVA is in the individual tester's hands.
None of the receipts were kept - just ticked off on a form and returned to me there and then.

So be nice to your VRO officer. Certainly at Manchester, as soon as one said "Kit", one got the only VRO who dealt with kits, which ruled out the option of "apologise, can't find receipt, will come back tomorrow and hope for new officer to sweet-talk"........

Hope that's some help - certainly once you cross the threshold of the VRO you are committed one way or another.

Oh yes, one last thing, your MAC will disappear into the VRO never to be seen again. Best to get a photocopy first if you want to keep the record.

Arthur.

[Sando]

Originally posted by Arthur

More than one old component, and its a Q.


Hiya
Not strictly true............only if you want a current reg number.

Current rules are that the engine and box are two seperate components as you say, but this is good enough to get you an age related plate. ie. the age of the donor engine and box.

The DVLA don't understand the term donor. You need to apply for a New registration starting from the day you go in, (important see final comment) BUT you apply on a V55/5 for registering a KIT CONVERSION. (their term!) They see this as a rebuilt car made from parts and if you can prove the engine and box Doner reg. ie with the old V5 logbook, then they will give you a new reg but based on the year of the doner Engine / box. There is a form V627/1 you fill in with where the bits came from and the inspector checks these when he looks at your car. You need a minimum of 2 components on the list to not get the dreaded Q. Engine and box willl do nicely. Guideline doc INF26 from DVLA may also help. Along with the previously posted link in the SVA thread for the Total kit cars site.

PS The DVLA can't check if the box actually came from the same donor, but the inspector said that as long as there is no adapter plate between the two it is accepted that they are from the same car....

The Nottm DVLA office also gave me a copy of the SVA cert back with my doc's.........That makes 4 copies I have now!!

PPS. You may also not have to get an MOT as a new registration was applied for...............I thought I would have to, but they said not because of applying for a new reg starting on the day I put the forms in. I think this is interpreted differently at each DVLA office so be careful.

Once Abingdon is out of the way I intend to do some example forms and a write up for the SEC newsletter with how it all went for me. Can't guarantee it's all correct but it went as expected, if a bit longwinded.
In the mean time I'm happy to help if I can, just send me a PM.

Cheers
Rob:cool:

[guy mayers]

Thanks for the enlightenment Rob! I've been umming and ahhing about a reply to this one for a couple of days but not having first hand experience of the SVA tests have put me off.
Back when the SVA test was a consultation thing the DVLA asked the "industry" about it and were horrified that the "Q" plate was so detested within the kit car world that they actually listened to input from individuals and realised that there were LOTS of kits out there running on donor reg details illegally that they decided that an amnesty was required. That's how I managed to get my car legally registered and retain the original plate, something that won't happen today. So, if you get a donor car whose plate you want to keep on the new car you have to put the number on a retention certificate, get a new plate issued for the donor, complete the kit, go through SVA, have a new plate issued and then transfer the original plate from the retention certificate. Either way, the only way to avoid a Q plate these days is to get a complete car and break it, using the engine as the major component whose identity can be verified to get an age related plate. Unfortunately the current government scrapped the rolling 25 year rule for a nil cost road fund tax but even if that is reinstated in the future the rules as applied will take the date of "first registration" of a kit as being the SVA date rather than the date of the donor so you're still going to have to pay the £165 each year for the pleasure of driving you car on the Queens highway! Unless , of course, you either got away with retaining the original registration date during the amnesty or your kit is approahing 25 years old.......
Either way, I'll qualify next time someone gets around to reviewing the rules.......
Guy

[Arthur]

Chaps,

A bell the size of Big Ben goes off in my skull.
Date-related plate ....... ah yes, that one slipped the gourd for sure. I couldn't get one. As you say, I'd have had to prove the age of the motor and box, which I couldn't do, cos Alfa Mike Buckler, who promised me the original vehicle registration doc with the engine, had actually sent the damn thing by mistake to a different customer, who obviously destroyed it, cos it was no use to him.
I tried to get a copy - no good. Needed the original car reg. which I didn't have, nor did Mike. Tried to trace it on engine number, but Alfa gave an Italian shrug, no can do, and the DVLA don't track engine number against registration, apparently - its not a searchable register even though its required on the computer-generated form. Once again, you'd need the original car registration number.
So date plate was out for me.

Makes you wonder how they track stolen engines, all the same.

Sometimes, just looking at the rules, you'd wonder how anyone got anything done.

All the best
Arthur.

[Sando]

..Amen:)

[shaun]

"A brand-new registration."

What applies in the mot emissions test for a new registration kit? The CO, HC values and cat fitted from the date of registration or the date the engine was built or the date the engine was rebuilt?

[gdr]

Relevant emissions limit from date of engine block manufacture. Or relevant to the donor car if you have donor documentation. I put my Ultima through with a rebuilt 1974 US engine (no emissions check apart from "visible smoke") and cert from builder with explanation of casting number code for date of manufacture was enough proof. Need receipts to prove engine reconditioned to "as new" condition to qualify for new reg.

[Arthur]

As I see the regs, this the only area you actually get some help, and it works like this :-
You get the emissions regs in force at the time of manufacture of the oldest component in your vehicle. The engine age will go on the date of manufacture of the block, irrspective of anything you've done to it since.
If the vehicle chassis plate is older, you'll get that instead.
If you have a Q-plate, you get the date of the oldest of the components for which you can provide valid documentation.
Which does make me wonder why a valid tuning technique isn't to immediately install a tuned, older-emissions engine into a new shell.

I eagerly await the replies concerning the no-doubt thousands of anomalies in this uncomplicated area!

Arthur.

[Sando]

Which does make me wonder why a valid tuning technique isn't to immediately install a tuned, older-emissions engine into a new shell.
Arthur.
Hiya
This was exactly why I kept my Volumex engine for SVA (and reg) so the emissions were based on this and also get an age related plate.

My interpretation (FOR SVA) was that the emissions test was done on the age of the engine alone and that this had to be proved either with the doner V5 or a letter from the manufacturer.

I would recommend putting a call into the SVA testing station you are intending to use, as with all the other SVA bits, in the end it will be their interpretation that counts!!

PS as for MOT, I thought it was the reg year that was important, but thinking on, you may have a new reg car with an old engine as you say shaun. Having had to go through SVA though you would have had to go through the correct emissions test for the year of the engine anyway (unless you manged to fudge it ;) ) so it should be ok anyway????
I take it this is what you were refering to Arthur?
cheers
Rob :cool:

[shaun]

I was thinking more like having to have a cat fitted to a car sva/registered in 2000 and since it was a new registration, has not required an mot for the first 3 years. Then once the engine was changed to something a little older(12v V6) the cat+emissions for 2000 still apply.

Not the end of the world but where would you put all the silencers/cats and V6 for that once a year special event. Think there was a thread about cats, I'll go searching.