How can I tell if it IS a Hawk?

[Ron Jon]

I have been offered a Stratos replica with a 2.5 Honda engine.
I have been told it is a Hawk replica but there is no sign of a chassis plate. Also it has a log book of a Lancia Beta.
1: How can I tell if it is a Hawk or not?
2: Can it be legally driven (or used in rallying) with a Beta log book?
3: How much should I offer/pay for it?
4:Does anyone know of any others for sale so I could make a comparison?

[guy mayers]

Post some pictures of the rear engine bay chassis or of the chassis under the front of the car. We will be able to tell you what it is! We may even be able to let you know from a registration number. If you choose that option please do it by private message.
Also, try looking on the chassis for a chassis number. The Hawk/Transformer will have the same number stamped in two locations. The first will be on the radiator side of the brake servo/master cylinder mounting bracket. The second is on the top left corner or the rear of the chassis viewed from behind whithout the rear bodyt panel in place (lean over the back if it is in place!).

A car registered as a Lancia Beta is illegally registered. It can be driven on the road so long as it is properly insured though but I would strongly recommend that you get the seller to get he car legally registered before making any offer. But, once legally registered, it's value is bound to be higher!

Fitted with a Honda 2.5 V6 you will not be able to convince DVLA that it can retain an age related plate and will be issued with a Q plate. You MAY also have to put the car through the SVA tast to make it legal. For a completed car this could be an expensive thing to have to do.

I cannot comment on the question of rallying it on a Beta logbook. Perhaps someone else more knowledgeable can!
Guy

[Sando]

Hi Ron
I agree with Guy that in the eyes of the law that it may not be registered correctly. So long as you can get an MOT tester to test it then you can get your road tax so you'd at least be to drive it.

This is where the SVA fits, MOT testers are supposed to refuse to test an incorrectly registerd car and refer you to the SVA test. but I know there are a lot of kit car drivers still driving around with cars registerd as their doner cars, with MOT's. Once SVA tested it could be registered correctly as a hawk, but it could possibly get a Q plate.

Not sure about it being registered as a Beta affecting an RAC log book for rallying or not. I know they do check the Reg doc's, you may have to have an Engineers report or something more than the Scrute having a look. You would need the a copy of the rollbar certificate though, as the original cage thickness is not a wide as the current requirments.

Hope this helps
Don't be put off by the SVA test, it may need some minor bits doing but is not the end of the world.
Cheers
Rob

[SUSIT]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sando
[B]Hi Ron


MOT testers are supposed to refuse to test an incorrectly registerd car and refer you to the SVA test.


Hi Rob
I have to say that no MOT station I have ever used has asked to see the vehicle Registration Document. When did SVA come in and can it be applied retrospectivley?

Stephen

[Sando]

It all depends on the MOT Tester.
They do have to write the chissis number and make of the car on the certificate. If he thinks your car is a Lancia - Beta then that's up to him!

The SVA was brought in during 1998 and there was period of grace for getting your car finished off or correctly registered. That deadline passed about 4 years ago.

Try this link to some very useful info on the subject at the total kit cars website. http://www.totalkitcar.com/tkc_article_125.shtml

cheers
Rob

[roger001]

Originally posted by guy mayers
The Hawk/Transformer will have the same number stamped in two locations. The first will be on the radiator side of the brake servo/master cylinder mounting bracket. The second is on the top left corner or the rear of the chassis viewed from behind whithout the rear bodyt panel in place (lean over the back if it is in place!).



N.B. early chassis made by Spyder did not have a chassis number on the front servo bracket only on the rear chassis member.

[chris.richard]

I think that Litton/Allora/Corse versions have the fuel filler cap cut outs in the centre tub bodywork, while Transformer/Hawks (and Lancias) have in the rear bodywork.

[chris.richard]

Is that this car? kit car ads (http://www.findit.co.uk/cars/kitcar/cars/1185590.htm)
If so, good spares package - spare LSD! That price looks cheap for what's there, if the quality is good.
Hawk has a MSA rollcage certificate, so no problems. I don't think the Corse ever had one, and the roll cage doesn't meet current Blue book regs, so you'd need to cut it apart and replace the cage with a proper one. Big hassle - ask Susit!
The 2.5 litre engine can be logbooked by a scrutineer, even if it has 4 valves per cylinder; over 2.5 l & >2 vpc, it has to be done by a Technical Commissioner, and there's a bit more paperwork and slightly different hoops to go through. I'm sure it would be picked up that it wasn't a Lancia Beta, so it would be better to get it legally registered first.

[SUSIT]

Originally posted by chris.richard


Hawk has a MSA rollcage certificate, so no problems. I don't think the Corse ever had one,


Chris
The Corse has indeed got a MSA roll cage certificate, I even have a copy but the Allora does not. Yes I can confirm changing the cage is a hassle but mainly cause I am getting the run around big time by the company building it.

Regards
Stephen

[vojx]

Originally posted by Ron Jon
I have been offered a Stratos replica with a 2.5 Honda engine.
1: How can I tell if it is a Hawk or not?
3: How much should I offer/pay for it?
4:Does anyone know of any others for sale so I could make a comparison?

1. If it looks like someone has spent a fortune and multi-thousands of hours making it into a real Stratos, then it is a Hawk. If it looks like a serious on-road, off-road racer then its a Corse. If it looks like s**t its an Allora. ;)
3. Price is totally dependent on condition. There is nothing wrong with a Honda V6, even if it isnt Italian. :p
4. if my Litton Honda V6 were for sale :( , 3000 squid, see points 1 and 3.

[chris.richard]

1) :D

[SUSIT]

Originally posted by vojx


If it looks like s**t its an Allora. ;)




Offence Taken but make your own mind up

[tomsredstratos]

Offence taken too!

[Swamprat33]

Hey Susit, I guess that is an old piccy, and that your Allora does not look quite like that at this exact moment ... Still I hope it is looking as good as the photo again real soon.

[guy mayers]

I'd understand that offence too!!

Tom, I know you'll pick this message up. Thanks for sending the outline of your drivers side window to me. I have compared it to the perspex window I have here and there are too many differences to mine to say that any new glass ones would fit the Allora for certain.
The pivot hole to locking mechanism hole distance is out by a half a cm (I suppose that could be accomodated by recutting the channel inthe door) and there appears to be a difference in the height of the window as well. If you let me have your address what I will do is draw around the perimeter of my window over your outline and post it back. How easy that will be I have no idea as my side window has quite a curve to it - was yours flat? The outline you scribed was so sharp!
Guy

[tomsredstratos]

Hi guy,No real offence taken to the above but I like my Allora. I put the paper down on the bed,then placed the window on top pushing it down into my duvet.That then gives you a true shape of the window.I was told off for leaving dust on the bed as the wallpaper I used was found in the loft.The Allora window has a double curve.Will email you my address.
Thanks for having a look.
Tom.

[guy mayers]

That's what the service is for Tom - I'll use a vinyl beanbag in case the wallpaper is still dusty! Hate to have to tell myself off!
Guy

[vojx]

:rolleyes:

[Ron Jon]

Thanks for the replies guys. Will do some further investigations and let you know how I get on.