Replicas currently manufactured

[Speedmade]

Hello all,
I apologize if this subject has been asked before. I didn't know what to search for.

I have been looking at both the Hawk and the Hennessy/Napier Sports replicas.
Does anyone have a definitive lineage of the later kit?
I have seen references that this was previously the CAE.
Are there any other replicas currently made that I should consider?
I would like to get peoples opinions of overall quality, fit, finish, completeness, and accuracy between these replicas.
I am willing to call anyone if they find it easier than typing alot.

I appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Reed Herman

[CorseChris]

Hi Reed,

Napier history as I understand it...

Started out as the Allora. Sold a few, some still around and going strong.

Went through a brief period of limbo, then was extensively re-worked in almost every area by Steve Greenwood into the Litton Corse S. Sold some more, exported a few, did OK in competition of various sorts.

Ongoing development, then introduction of the Corse I which is the IRS version with Ford hubs all round. Sold some more, exported some more, did more good stuff in competition.

Ownership changed to Hugh Carson (who had been heavily involved with production at Litton), name changed to CAE, ongoing nips & tucks. Again, sold some more, exported some more, did more good stuff in competition.

Longer period of limbo, now the Napier under Lionel Gooch (sp?). Lionel has designs on making it easier to build and to update some parts of the S version to make sourcing parts a bit easier.


I'm currently building a 4th hand, roughly 13 year old CAE Corse S (well, I think it's was a CAE but it could be Litton - not a lot of difference around that time specification wise) so I'm sort of a bit biased I suppose. Having said that, I have friends who have 3 of the types so you could say I'm not partisan. FWIW, I originally intended to buy a Hawk but ended up with what I have due to circumstances, not design. I'm happy enough with the way things turned out. I'm no engineer but that won't stop me making an observation - I personally think the geometry of the suspension is slightly more functional on the Litton/CAE/Napier. Both work well enough though, it seems. This comment should hopefully kick off a few replies for you to peruse. There are a number of threads concerning lack of steering 'feel' in the Hawk and how best to set them up to improve this. I only have this second-hand so you'd have to search or ask those that know for sure. This is a minor thing as I understand it and is as much about personal taste as anything else most likely. I'm not aware of this issue being present on the other brand.

If you are looking for a near-perfect replica in terms of under the skin as well as outwardly then you need a Hawk unless you are a glutton for punishment of course. If you are less concerned about the last tiny details and just want the outside to look like a Strat, then either will do fine. The devil is in the details of course and you can make either look like (or not look like) an original Strat by careful build and choice of appendages.

The whole replica thing is a tender area though so be warned! :) Making observations about whether you think a 'true' copy is a good or a bad thing is far worse than insulting someone's wife/girlfriend/partner so be careful :))

You'll note I make no comment either way.....

Quality, fit finish. Well, I didn't start with a full kit, just a pile of junk, but the chassis was nice underneath all the mess. The new body tub I bought was OK but did need quite a bit of work to tidy it up in some areas. Panel fit was pretty dire, but given doors, bonnet & boot were 12 years old and had been 'got at', while the rest was new, I guess that might be expected.

One thing for sure, either brand is not for the faint hearted. I've been involved with cars for 30 years in an amateur capacity, built 2 kit cars from scratch and done a full rebuild on another over the years. Doesn't make me an expert, but I reckon this is way harder.


Trust this helps a bit. All very much IMHO, not warranty given or implied, caveat emptor E&OE etc etc etc

[mogul_x]

Reed,

I generally agree with what Chris has said. I have a fairly recent Hawk (about 2 years old) under construction, and I have seen Chris' car in person, so I feel reasonably comfortable comparing the two. I'm no expert, though. To address your areas of interest specifically:

1) Overall quality - probably about the same for both. Each is well made, and has its high and low points. In the past, the Hawk probably had the edge on overall fiberglass quality, at least with respect to raw surface finish. Not sure if the latest iteration of the Corse has raised the bar on that comparison.

As far as low points on the Hawk - I've had some minor issues about fit on some of the suspension components. Nothing major, mind you - just nuisance complaints. Spacers not being quite the right thickness, having to grind a corner off a bracket or two - that sort of thing. All easily remedied with a few minutes and the appropriate power tools.

Both vehicles require a lot of drilling and cutting for assembly. The bodywork comes with nothing but the large holes for the doors and windows pre-cut, so you have to make the rest of the holes for lamps, marker lights, vents, etc. On the Hawk at least, you have to drill holes in the frame for mounting the door hinges, parking brake handle, steering column, and other assorted items.

One area of almost universal derision seems to be the build manual. To say that it's vague is being generous. The average plastic model kit probably has more detailed instructions. It does give some very general guidance on assembling the body, but assumes a high level of familiarity with automobiles in general, and Stratos in particular. If you buy a kit, be prepared to ask a lot of questions here on the forum!;)

2) Fit and finish - really dependant on the amount of care you put into building the kit. Neither the Hawk nor the Allora / Litton / CAE / Napier are "bolt together" kits. Both require a fair amount of hand finishing to align body panels, set gaps, etc. I've seen really splendid cars from both manufacturers, and a few that were a little rough around the edges. The time and effort of the builder spends during the construction will really be the deciding factor here.

3) Completeness - again, probably about the same. I think both kits come with the major components (body, chassis, suspension arms, glass), and require that you source a lot of the other systems (engine, brakes, steering rack, seats, etc). Both require at least some donor parts from other vehicles, and a few from cars that were never imported here. There are some items that you'll need to scratchbuild, or you can order them from the manufacturers as options. I think both manufacturers offer sourcing of donor parts as a service, albeit at a premium.

4) Accuracy - as Chris said, if you're really looking for an accurate replica, the Hawk is the better place to start. It is more similar to the original, inside and out, than is the Corse. The Hawk also shares most of the suspension components and geometry with the original, for better or worse. If you just want something that looks the part from the outside, either will do. The Corse "i" model might have a slight advantage if you intend to build a track car, since it has a more modern suspension and more heavily triangulated frame.

As far as other replica makers, there is a company in Australia (I think) that makes a near copy of the Hawk designed around Toyota MR2 mechanicals. For more information, check out this thread:
http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1079

If you want to talk via phone, feel free to drop me a line. You can reach me at (610)705-0594 most evenings. I'll be happy to provide as many details as you like.

Best regards,

[Speedmade]

Thanks for the great info. It really helped.

Reed H