The horror... [Library] - Lancia Stratos Forums

CorseChris

February 18th, 2004, 02:27 AM

I'm clearly missing something. What's wrong with it? It has tyres (rather than being stuck on bricks waiting for someone to find a secret store of 20 year old discontinued stock) and the gaps between tyre and arch look pretty typical.

I wouldn't personally choose to run such low-profile tyres on our roads, and there is also something to be said for a more gentle breakaway with a taller section as well, but nope, in general, I can't see a problem with it. No apology about that either.

tryphon

February 18th, 2004, 02:41 AM

My personnal feeling is expressed in the thread's subject.

These cars need respect, even if replicas, to the automotive heritage they are carrying.

If you don't respect that then maybe a Subaru would be faster, cheaper, more practical, less noisy, ...

CorseChris

February 18th, 2004, 02:47 AM

Simply don't agree.

Andrew Way

February 18th, 2004, 05:55 AM

Personally, to me it’s like building a uPVC conservatory on a 200 year old cottage. Completely functional, but something of a time machine……..

Perhaps cars should become “listed” like houses ;) :rolleyes: ;)

CorseChris

February 18th, 2004, 06:16 AM

Here we go again...

So anyone that doesn't have a Dino engine, 108mm PCD hubs, the correct brand and age of tyre, exactly the right interior components in exactly the right places etc etc etc isn't 'right' then.

This being the case, where does that leave everyone that has (shock horror) fibreglass tubs on their replica? The real issue here seems to be replica doesn't it??

Just my own view (which up until now I was keeping to myself and not slagging off anyone else's).

I'll get my coat. Bye.

SUSIT

February 18th, 2004, 06:20 AM

If you don't respect that then maybe a Subaru would be faster, cheaper, more practical, less noisy, ...

Tryphon, You are right in a way but why should those of us with less income, savings or spare cash not have the right to run a replica as we can afford, I would love to be able to purchase tyres costing £200 each to put on " original replica wheels " but if I did that I would have no holidays, eat beans on toast for a year, not be able to do the odd motorsport event so I make do with what I can afford and dream about the rest. I do run a subaru as well but its 12 years old and worth almost nil but will happily tow my Stratos replica all over the country.

Regards
Stephen

Andrew Way

February 18th, 2004, 06:23 AM

Chris, you are of Corse right. Where do you draw the line? I'm happy to make compromises regarding the mechanical side of owning a replica but I like the asthetics to be original or "of the period". But I'm just a wrong as anyone else!

roger001

February 18th, 2004, 07:10 AM

As Chris says here we go again....

This was extensively covered before christmas.

As far as I'm concerned if the car is original then it should be kept that way, with the exception of period modifications/variations used for competition purposes.

However if a kit/replica then it is up to the individual to make his car as much of a replica as he deems fit, taking into account depth of pocket, propsed use (daily run around, show car, competition car etc) and of course individual taste.

From this point of view an idividuals choice should be respected.

mogul_x

February 18th, 2004, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by CorseChris
I'm clearly missing something. What's wrong with it?

Well, when you're dealing with aesthetics, there really is no right or wrong. What's beauty to some may be somewhat less appealing to others.

Having said that... My initial impression of that picture was that there is something "wrong". It could be one of two things:

First, the style of wheel just isn't my cup of tea. That many radial spokes looks more like a carriage or locomotive wheel to me, and strikes me as being out of place on a car. No offense intended if anyone is really fond of that look - I just prefer somewhere between 4 and 6 radial spokes on car wheels.

I think what really puts me off is the size of the wheel. They seem too big in proportion to the rest of the car. I couldn't give you a mathematical formula to define it, but there is a range of wheel sizes that looks "right" on a given car, depending on the size of the car. Above or below that, and they look "wrong". In my opinion, that wheel size is too large for a Stratos.

But hey, who am I to judge? ;)

PANOS

February 18th, 2004, 07:45 AM

HEY GUYS,
NOW IF EVERYONE QUITE FINISHED, CAN YOU PLEASE, PLEASE SUGGEST WHAT MAKE OF TYRE/SIZE AND WHERE CAN I FIND THEM (AND HOW MUCH?) FOR MY 10X15 REVOLUTION 5-SPOKE REAR WHEELS FOR MY STRATALE REPLICA, REPEAT REPLICA??????
AS I SAID BEFORE, I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR MORE THAN A YEAR NOW AND I AM RUNNING OUT OF PATIENCE...AND TREAD!!!
SHALL I GO THE JAPANESE WAY FOR 16 - 17 -18 - 19 OR EVEN,
SHOCK-HORROR, 20's...!!!:rolleyes: :(

CIAO PANOS:cool:

mogul_x

February 18th, 2004, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by guy mayers
So that's where Hotwheels got their model from.........

Which version are you talking about - top or bottom?

mogul_x

February 18th, 2004, 08:05 AM

Originally posted by PANOS
PLEASE SUGGEST WHAT MAKE OF TYRE/SIZE AND WHERE CAN I FIND THEM (AND HOW MUCH?) FOR MY 10X15 REVOLUTION 5-SPOKE REAR WHEELS

There's a few of tires out there to fit a 10x15 rim - unfortunately, they're all 60 series or taller. Probably too tall to fit in the Stratos wheel arches -rolling diameter ends up somewhre in the range of 27":(

PANOS

February 18th, 2004, 08:54 AM

HEY SCOTT,

I KNEW ALL THAT... THAT IS WHY I POSTED THE QUESTION.
ANY OTHER SUGGESTIONS ANYBODY????:(

PANOS

vojx

February 18th, 2004, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by CorseChris
Here we go again...

So anyone that doesn't have a Dino engine, 108mm PCD hubs, the correct brand and age of tyre, exactly the right interior components in exactly the right places etc etc etc isn't 'right' then.

This being the case, where does that leave everyone that has (shock horror) fibreglass tubs on their replica? The real issue here seems to be replica doesn't it??

Just my own view (which up until now I was keeping to myself and not slagging off anyone else's).

I'll get my coat. Bye.

Too true. Seems I don't fit in here. Why should I strive to make my strat look like everyone elses? I'm not spending all this time and effort, and then not stand out in a crowd.
In my opinion, the Japanese strat should've had larger rear wheels. I suspect he enjoys the benefits of low-profile tyres, and not worry about the cost of replacement when smoking the rear tyres.
Coat - check.
Lights out - check.

Jeff Davison

February 18th, 2004, 09:40 AM

Panos,

Hoosier makes a US street legal D.O.T approved track tire. It has tread, but minimal depth and a race compund.

You could use it if your local munincipality allows for a US approved street tire, but seeing it is really designed for the track, it will probably be short lived if you use it as a daily driver

The size for the rear is 275/50 x 15.

I'll be using these for my track day tires. My street tires will be the Pirellis 345/35 jobbies.

Also think there is a BF Goodrich tire of the same size (275/50) and 265/50 x 15 in their lines that is a full street tire.
here's a link, hope it works:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?startIndex=0&width=275%2F&ratio=50&diameter=15&search=true&pagelen=20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&x=12&y=8

Check out the specs page for the BFG tire. Max width on the 265 is 10" and the range for the 275 is 7.5" - 11".
JD Atlanta

tryphon

February 18th, 2004, 10:18 AM

First I didn't mean to be offensive to anyone.

Then, can you imagine a GT40 replica sporting 18" wheels? That's sacriledge.

Replica or not these cars are meant to be one way. No need to spend more money or be 100% authentic, get a set of 15" Ferrari-derived compomotives and you should be OK.

Tires can be had at 14" and 15" as long as you don't go above 8"-9" widths. They're not very performing but then again they do allow you to slide all over the place and that's where the fun is as long as you're not running against the clock.

mogul_x

February 18th, 2004, 10:21 AM

Originally posted by Jeff Davison
Also think there is a BF Goodrich tire of the same size (275/50) and 265/50 x 15 in their lines that is a full street tire.

Those might still be a little tall for the Stratos, but they're closer than most tires I've seen. Rolling diameter is a little under 26". See a lot of tires in that size range on old musclecars.

What's the typical diameter of a Stratos tire? Something around 24"?

David May

February 18th, 2004, 10:57 AM

Might I remind the 'purists' that the original Stradale had 14" wheels! We don't want to go back there do we??

Dave (16") May

tryphon

February 18th, 2004, 11:01 AM

There's a world of a difference between 14" and 18", the truth is somewhere in the middle but as far as I'm concerned I would never go beyond 15" now even if in the past I foolishly considered it.

chris.richard

February 18th, 2004, 11:51 AM

23 posts on one thread in 20 hours - is this a record?:)

What about Kumho tyres - they do a range of appropriate sizes and compounds for 15 & 16 inch rims up to 8.5 inches wide?

kumho (http://www.kumho-euro.com/Motorsports/KH_brochure03.html)

PANOS

February 18th, 2004, 02:25 PM

JEFF IS RIGHT IN WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT HOUSIER'S AND BFGOODRIDGE'S 275/50-15 STREET LEGAL DRAG RADIALS (THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE) AND THAT THEY ARE MARGINALLY TOO TALL FOR THE STRATOS, UNLESS I MODIFY MY REAR STRUTS... I KNEW ALL THAT FROM MY RESEARCH...
THAT LEAVES THE PROPOSED NEW (OLD) MICHELIN COURSE TYRES DISCUSSED IN ANOTHER THREAD, THE ONLY CHOISE AT THE MOMENT, AS I FEARED... UNLESS SOMEBODY KNOWS DIFFERENT...
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT 8X15 (OR 9X15?) AND 12X15 ARE THE SIZES TO HAVE IF YOU WANT TO STICK TO 15" DIAMETER...
THOSE WITH 10X15, LIKE ME ARE STUCK IN LIMBO LAND!!!!
AND NO I CANNOT USE 12X15 ON MY STRATALE.
BEST CHOISE AT THE MOMENT SEEMS 275/40-17.
WHAT SAYS YOU TRYPHON "FILE" (THAT'S "FRIEND" IN GREEK...)????:confused:

CIAO PANOS:cool:

tryphon

February 18th, 2004, 02:31 PM

TBs are available for 9" and 10" wheels as well. I haven't tried them and, frankly, I don't expect stellar performance from them.

But the tire issue is only valid for large wheels, 10" and especially 12". For other 15" diameter wheels there's quite a lot of choice in very high performance street tires.

mogul_x

February 18th, 2004, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by PANOS
THOSE WITH 10X15, LIKE ME ARE STUCK IN LIMBO LAND!!!!
AND NO I CANNOT USE 12X15 ON MY STRATALE.

How about a nice set of Gp.4 square arches - that should fix your problem....;)

stewart

February 18th, 2004, 03:03 PM

Well, as Chris said this many posts on one topic in such a short amount of time must be some kind of record. I am happy to put my two cents worth in. Firstly, I think it is healthy to have such discussions as long as it is just that, a healthy discussion. We might not agree with everyone else but as long as we respect their right to an opinion all should be well.

Has anyone ever been involved in a discussion about what is a 'sports car'?

I have 16in wheels (Fr7.5, R 8.0) because it is easier to get tyres. Simple as that. I wouldn't go any bigger and I wish I didn't have to run such low profile. Since wheel sizes are generally getting bigger the chances of tyres being available long term for 14in and 15in in a wide range of sizes seems unlikely. I want to drive my car regularly, which means using tyres.

I'd love to have a set of replica wheels in 14 or 15 for originality. (Sorry my PCD is different to everyones elses so those being made are no help and the import duty...) The reality is though that I would probably go for them in 16 too, so I can use them. My car is a replica, but since I love the Stratos I wanted it to look as close as possible to the original, but be usable too..hence air conditioning and 16 in wheels.

I don't like the wheels on the car Tryphon has posted, I like to think I have gone for something sympathetic to the car, but that's my opinion. Personally I think 19/20in wheels look totally ridiculous and anyone riding on super low profile tyres on our roads is in for one very uncomfortable ride. Japanese roads are much better.

Anyway, keep the discussions going because as long as it is healthy then it provides great material for people interested in the cars who may not yet have formed their opinions on what or what not to do!:cool:

cheers,

PANOS

February 18th, 2004, 03:42 PM

SCOT IS RIGHT, A NICE SET OF GR.4 SQUARE ARCHES AND REPLICA COFFIN WHEELS (8X15 F & 12X15 R) WILL SOLVE MY TYRE PROBLEMS... BUT THAT WILL HAVE TO WAIT UNTIL I FINISH REBUILDING MY THEMA TURBO 2L NOS 500BHP (WHAT!!!???:eek: )
ENGINE TO REPLACE THE OLD AND PROBABLY TIRED BETA TWINCAM... TRUTH IS I HAVEN'T STARTED YET...
IN THE MEAN-TIME I STILL NEED TYRES FOR MY 10X15s, AS MINE IS A TRUE DAILY DRIVER!!!

CIAO PANOS:cool:

rutthenut

February 22nd, 2004, 04:32 AM

My opinion mirrors many of those voiced already - I'm not that keen on this particular wheel design, and the size does look a bit 'odd' on the car, but the overall diameter is probably right.

My first thoughts were also about the Hot Wheels cars!

Comments on originals having 14" and then 15" wheels are valid to some degree, as 16" plus weren't a general choice then for performance vehicles.

But if you get to agree on the wheel size being 15" (or 14"), then you can go on to argue about the wheel design itself.

I know this is where the coffin-spoke wheels come into play, and not only are they obviously the 'right' wheel to use, they do look great on this car.

But if arguing about wheels used on the originals, just look at the huge range of rims they put onto various competition cars - not only the Campag coffin-spokes, but some pretty ugly wheels were also used on some rally cars (especially in the narrow widths used on snow and ice events).

This isn't something I get too concerned about with the replicas, as whatever happens they aren't going to be originals! But using parts that are either correct, or 'look correct' for the original era of the car is a fair choice to make for most people.

By the way Panoz - I saw a Michelin TRX tyre at the Historic Motorsport show yesterday, in 280/45x15 size. Not my ideal choice of tyre, as the tread looks very open and not best suited to performance use. But maybe very good as a road tyre.

The TB 'intermediates' are also road legal and might be a good choice for some - depending on the mileage and road conditions you might expect to drive on.

All the best,

PANOS

February 22nd, 2004, 10:11 AM

MAYBE I'M IGNORANT... BUT WHAT ARE "TBs"???:confused:
I GUESS THEY ARE TYRES BUT WHAT MAKE???

PANOS:cool:

tryphon

February 22nd, 2004, 10:21 AM

Check out the link in this thread:

http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1060

PANOS

February 22nd, 2004, 10:32 AM

I KNEW THAT THEY WERE MICHELINS...!!!:o
THANKS FOR THE WAKE-UP "FILE" TRYPHON...
ANYBODY ELSE INTERESTED IN THESE TYRES???

CIAO PANOS:cool:

tryphon

February 22nd, 2004, 11:22 AM

We're trying to arrange a group order.
News to come soon.

Sando

February 23rd, 2004, 02:10 AM

Hi
There were some good discussions about the michelin TB15's at the Historic Motorsport show with a very friendly Tyre distributer in the UK. I'm sure you'll be hearing about it soon and I won't steal anyones thunder. Good discounts were on offer depending on numbers. You know my thoughts on TB's, they're spot on, but probably last about a week on the road!

Interestingly there was also a 275/55VR15 Pirelli P7 listed by the same people, don't know if this is of use for the road and 10 inch rims as an alternative to the hard to get 285's, they said they were readily available. I'd not seen them before. Is it too tall a profile?

There was also a Dunlop Post Historic CR82 or CR85 tyre in various widths to suit 10 -12 in rims. These are treaded and aparently only have the not for highway use markings on one side............... various widths and profiles some as low as 23.7in Diameter to fit a 10 inch rim. The price of these were about £50 each less than the TB's. see http://www.dunloptyres.co.uk/site/tyres/motorsportRange/historicVintage/index.shtml

Cheers
Rob:cool:

rutthenut

February 23rd, 2004, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by Sando
These are treaded and aparently only have the not for highway use markings on one side...............

Apparently, if these tyres meet with a hot spoon then they don't have marking of this sort on either side!!! :eek:

CorseChris

February 23rd, 2004, 09:14 AM

I just realised I never actually nailed my colours to the wall before leaving.....

I am fitting 16" rims, quite similar to these 'cos I think they look nice http://www.stratossupersite.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=120&papass=&sort=1&thecat=506 but in silver. 7 1/2" front 8 1/2" rear with 205/50 and 225/45 tyres (yes, the obvious way round).

I won't really know if they look the way I want or work properly until I finally finish the car....should that ever come to pass that is.

I'll leave it to others to decide if it's true to the spirit or not - it'll be what I want at least - aircon, radio, electric windows & mirrors and all.

Andrew Way

February 23rd, 2004, 10:15 AM

Chris,

Who makes the wheel your considering?

Andrew.

mogul_x

February 23rd, 2004, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by CorseChris
I am fitting 16" rims, quite similar to these 'cos I think they look nice... but in silver.

I'll leave it to others to decide if it's true to the spirit or not
Ah, you're going for Hotwheels option 1, then.;)

For what it's worth, Chris - it looks good to me. Right number of spokes, and a style that's evocative of period alloys. Can't imagine even the "purists" taking much exception to them.

As for size - I don't see why 16" shouldn't look fine. In my opinion, 17" is the point where the wheels start looking out of scale on smaller cars. Even then, it's very hit and miss. Some small cars look fine with 17", while others start looking silly. Depends on how the car's proportions interact with the wheel styling.

Now, I've yet to see a modern car that really looks good on 20" wheels...

CorseChris

February 24th, 2004, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by Andrew Way
Chris,

Who makes the wheel your considering?

Andrew.

http://www.imagewheels.co.uk/

Had some of their wheels before - very tough, decent finish and when I needed a rim replacing, they were very quick doing the job. Had a bit of a SNAFU with this order - they arrived in a polished finish rather than the silver I asked for, but they soon sorted it out for me.

I opted for the 'Billet 5' pattern. As the name suggests, the hub is machined from billet and the rims are their usual spun aluminium style.

As Scott observed, they look 'about right' as far as period look goes and I liked the clean design from a more practical perspective (if you can call 30 some cap-head bolts 'clean').

Hotwheels 1 would be about right I suppose.

David May

February 24th, 2004, 05:51 AM

My Image wheels were not the quoted offsets and are very fragile when used off-road! Unpainted, the rims corrode rapidly. bend very easily and leak at the slightest jolt. I find all those niuts and bolts a bit naff and they are a pain to tighten frequently. Price OK and they look the part...

Dave May

CorseChris

February 24th, 2004, 06:00 AM

Now there's a very different experience to mine ! Had a set on the Marcos (OK, on road use only) for over 6 years - never a problem in all that time. Rims looked like new, never had to tighten the bolts. Only problem I had was when the suspension broke and I decided that the resulting gouge in the inner rim was too deep for comfort so I had a new one put on. Couldn't blame the wheel for that.

YMMV as they say.......

Based upon my experiences with a set of OZ wheels on the Alfa I'd never have another set of those, but I bet there are probably plenty of happy OZ punters out there.

Interesting.