Stratos repair man part 2

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The first part of repairing is the taking apart and I am good at that
Last nights work

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Not much to take off

[Cloggie]

Good luck with the major surgery. Just make sure you don't leave any tools inside when you stitch her back up again...

All the best, Nico/

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Hi All
Rather than take up space in the forum I will try to start an album in the photo section so that those of you interested in the rebuild can see how it is going.
I plan to upgrade and improve the car quite q lot so it may take a while. I am always open to suggestions / Ideas on how to improve things, so feel free to comment.
Spent last night removing some of the bulkhead at the rear and taking out the head light and indicator to enable repair to the nose section. Some difficulty with rusted nuts and bolts. A good place to use stainless steel items. My car was first built in 1988 so there is going to be a bit of rust. Difficulty is I usually just get out the welding gear to deal with these things but bit difficult on a strat!
Work has started this morning on repairing the damage to the central tub.

Stephen

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Well its all begining to move now. The rolling shell has been delivered to the guy going to replace the roll cage, Will be away for around 4 weeks. That should give me a chance to brush up my painting skills and finish the rebuild on my Midas thats been sitting around for a few years.

[colin artus]

If you're looking for SS fasteners in small or odd quantities try www.a2a4.co.uk.

Colin

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Hi all
Just posted some pics of my revised rollcage plans to bring my allora up to present day RAC MSA spec. Fabricage providing the cage and local chap fitting it, Comments welcome

Stephen Struthers

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Now we might see some progress, Hope it all fits.

[Sando]

Are the roof bars on the left part of the RAC requirements too?:D :D

Good luck with it all coming back together. It'll be great to see it back on the road and out on the stages.

cheers
Rab:cool:

[Swamprat33]

I think they are in fact one of those self righting mechanisms used in Robot Wars - in case the car is ever rolled!

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Good job on the cage IMHO, more pics in Forum gallery

[Stratos]

Looks good, Stephen.

[chris.richard]

more pics in Forum gallery

Oh no there isn't! :p

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Oh no there isn't! :p

sorry Chri I keep getting an error message, did email David and he replied saying he would look at it this weekend.

Stephen

[chris.richard]

No doorbars?

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No doorbars?

Think you need an eye test Chris, Look again. They run just above the sill so that they clear the door pockets and yes the RACMSA Scruit has passed them. He was involved in the design and fitting at all stages. Also means the door aperture remains as large as possible.

[chris.richard]

That qualifies as a doorbar!? I see why you raise your eyebrows at some of your scroot's decisions!

[SUSIT]

Remember Chris you sit very low in the car, the bar will protect my pelvis very well and leaves a large aperture to get out the car in a hurry. I have to say i prefer that to one fitted at an angle. As usual its each to their own and is one of the beauties of building your own competition car.

Stephen

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As you can see from the start date on this thread progress has been slow in coming but at last things are begining to happen.
Following my health problems early this year I decided to farm out the heavy work of fitting the V6 engine etc to a friends company.
The engine is now in the car with mounts welded up, the exhaust is nearly done. I am fitting a system that came with the engine when I bought it from Dave Carson so its from a Corse I and not a straight forward fit. :) For those interested my fancy stainless exhaust system will fit with only one pipe needing alteration. The rear drivers side cylinder pipe needed a change in shape and 1/8 of an inch removed from its length to make it fit. :)
we have descovered some poor fabrication on the original build particuarly in the suspension mounting brackets so have made heavier duty new one's and ensured the welding is A1.
The repair to the rear body section has turned into a nightmare and for fear of riddicule will not say anymore, needless to say it will need a bit of re-doing
Would have posted some pics however forgot to take my camera when was over yesterday, :rolleyes: will need to wait until next week.

[CorseChris]

Great news Stephen. Bet your bodywork repair nightmare isn't as embarrassing as the cost of my paint job though......

[rutthenut]

Remember Chris you sit very low in the car, the bar will protect my pelvis very well and leaves a large aperture to get out the car in a hurry. I have to say i prefer that to one fitted at an angle. As usual its each to their own and is one of the beauties of building your own competition car.

But I thought the section of the Blue Book specified that the bar had to be one-third of the way up the door aperture?

Although there is always some leeway in interpretation, and I'm not sure if that was a 'recommendation' rather than a 'requirement'.

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Wrong way round John (the side protection must be as high as possible but not higher than one third of the total height of the door apreture measured from its base) taken from blue book.
I have to say looking at a side impact i feel this set up suits me and I can always add to it

[Martin K]

As mentioned in an earlier post, the door bars are intended (by the MSA) to protect the occupants pelvis. In most cars the driver's (and co-driver's) pelvis is well above the height of the sill. In the Stratos, with high sills and low seats, the pelvis is already pretty much protected. I had a Davrian at the time when the door bar regs came in and I had to retro-fit them as the car was without them as standard. The new doorbars I added ran just on top of the inner sill, as in this case. The car passed scrutineering and logbooking with them fitted like that - and I felt safe too.

As for the ones in my Hawk, they were quite low and ran slightly downwards towards the front. In my infamous shunt they helped to keep the door apertures, particularly the left one which took most of the force, more or less the in shape, so they work in frontal impacts to, but in a different way!

Martin

[Chris J]

'Just to illustrate...

[rutthenut]

Wrong way round John (the side protection must be as high as possible but not higher than one third of the total height of the door apreture measured from its base) taken from blue book.

That makes sense - I thought there was something about the one-third proportion.

And as per other comments, the low seating position and deep sills of the Stratos mean the door bars are a bit less important than they might be in a saloon, for instance, with much larger and higher door openings.

[Martin K]

'Just to illustrate...

Chris

If you don't want the Lancia horn push I will happily buy it from you if you would consider selling it.

Martin

[Chris J]

Martin

I don't really want to sell it, it's the only horn button I've got.

I don't know if you can still get them? Probably?

[Chris J]

Actually, having had a quick look ebay and the net, Lancia horn push buttons don't seem to be readily available. Unless I'm looking in the wrong place?

Is this why I'm being asked about mine??

You can hear the penny dropping.

[Swamprat33]

it actually sounded to me Chris, like a large bag of pound coins being dropped... ;)

[Chris J]

Well I thought as much, Tim.
I put the words horn Lancia and Momo into google and up came a wanted ad. from Jeff Davidson, asking for the same. So I figured there can't be that many Lancia Momo sized horn pushes out there?
'Small world, isn't it?

[Chris J]

'Getting back to the door bar thing though;

Yuk (Yukspeed) Hodgson had a Corse for sale a few years ago that had been modified quite a lot for rallying.

I already had the Hawk by then, but I went to Yuk's to have a look at the Corse. Yuk said "See if you can get in it, 'cos I can't!". So I gave it a go. The car had door bars at normal door bar height for a modern rally car.

I've never had such a struggle to get into a car before, and I'm not tall or wide! I managed to get most of me between the top of the door aperture and the top of the door bar, and then just 'fell' into the driver's seat. How on earth you'd ever get out of the car in a hurry is beyond me?

So, bearing that in mind, having door bars as low as possible in a Stratos rep. is a good idea. Genuine works Stratos rally cars didn't have them at all, and I still say they didn't have a FRONT roll cage either. Just a very thin steel tube up the middle of the A pillars, but that's no more than any other Bertone small volume built shells would have. (Urraco, 308 GT4 etc.)

[Martin K]

Chris

I tried to get a Lancia horn push when I bought my last wheel for the Monte Turbo, but I couldn't get one. So obviously I regret selling the one I once owned and that's why I asked if you wanted to sell it! I don't know what the original Stratos had as a horn push - was it a generic 'Lancia' one?

I have a nice Abarth Scorpion on my 037 - and they are no longer available either.

[Swamprat33]

Consortium project???

Cant be that hard to produce or cost that much either.

Tim

[d8evo]

you have an 037? is that a stradale?

Im toying with the idea of buying a Stradale, to go with the Evo Dealer Collection and Stratos (8.32 engine) wont be for a while yet though. I would be pleased to get some insights into ownership

Cheers

Dan

[Chris J]

Dan

Martin's car is a replica of an 037 racing version with north south engine and box etc., so not a factory Stradale.

I'll start another thread for horn pushes.

[rutthenut]

Martin's car is a replica of an 037 racing version with north south engine and box etc., so not a factory Stradale.

Martin - do you have both an 037 replica and the race-spec Monte Carlo Turbo rep?

Full-size too, not just the slot cars!

[Martin K]

Martin - do you have both an 037 replica and the race-spec Monte Carlo Turbo rep?

Full-size too, not just the slot cars!

Yep, I do.

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:) New Pic in gallery showing engine in situ

Can any one explain how to resize photo using windows XP :o

[Andy S]

I've never had such a struggle to get into a car before, and I'm not tall or wide! I managed to get most of me between the top of the door aperture and the top of the door bar, and then just 'fell' into the driver's seat. How on earth you'd ever get out of the car in a hurry is beyond me?

If you crash and think you can hear fuel pissing out (it was just the tyre going down) its amazing how quick yoy can get out. Dave's old yellow car's door bars were pretty high but when your in a rush you just leap out!

[Chris J]

Andy

The car in question, also had a north south engine which made the cockpit a bit smaller too. It really was too hard to get in and out of.

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A small amount more work done today, converted to studs instead of bolts and fitted new wheels, thank god they fit. we changed the inset slightly to get rid of the spacers and for a while thought I had screwed up but all looks ok. new discs on and started brackets for new calipers.
May have a plan B for engine

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Better view :D :D :D

[strat6v]

I'll get the pliers, you get the burning tackle!!

[catswhiskers]

slow but sure Stephen. Dont forget it's only a year to the Mull recce. Oh, and I've got meself a 3 layer suit and matching undies now in readiness. :D :D
Keep pressing on.


Mick.

[David May]

Stephen, is that red thing in the workshop a possible donor car?

[Sando]

:D .......Plan B....now I get it! :D

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Stephen, is that red thing in the workshop a possible donor car?

Plan B Dave

[David May]

Let me know what you do with the remains of the Dino - maybe I can put a Alfa V6 in it!

[CorseChris]

It would certainly go better with the Alfa motor.......go on, I'm game...why would you want to put a 12V Dino engine in your car??

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Well thought it was time to add an update to the long running saga of my Allora rebuild. :(
To be fair to me it’s more of a conversion to out and out competition car, primarily for stage rallying and in particular Forest stages. :D
On the whole most of the work is done. The Modified Alfa engine I bought from Dave Carson is in with Drive shaft adapters fitted. A new foam filled fuel tank has been fitted in a similar position to that used in a Corse.
All new suspension mounts have been made and welded on at the rear. Modified bilstien struts with adjustable top mounts are on.
The tubular exhaust system that came with the engine has been modified to fit my chassis and looks the dogs dangly bits. Hope it sounds as good as it looks.
We have extended the roll cage at the front to replace rather thin box tube used in the Allora.
The pedal assembly was removed and replaced with a Tilton floor mounted brake bias pedal box. One of those jobs you wish you never started. :o In the end we had to replace the steering column and cut a large hole through the bulkhead for the master cylinders to fit, down side is they only fit upside down so bleeding is going to be a challenge. :)
A new gear change has been made, a direct linkage like the Corse again, leaves a problem with space for a handbrake but that’s another story.
The front suspension has been slightly modified to give more travel and the damper top mount moved to reduce the angle of the dampers. A new 3 core radiator is in place and I have a Craig Davies electric water pump and controller to fit but may hold off doing so at the moment.
So why does it all take so long, well everything has to be hand made, for instance I have spent the last two days making sill jacking points for my bilstien jack. Lots of cutting and shaping of metal followed by lots of drilling of holes and finally 24 rivets a side and its done, works as well. :D
More to follow soon and will try and remember to take the camera next time.

[chris.richard]

Ready for knockhill in a fortnight?

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Ready for knockhill in a fortnight?


If I had another two weeks annual leave but sadlly no. :(

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Working Jacking points, The heavy duty plate that the bottom of the roll cage sits on was extended out to the sill then shaped round the inner sill and finally welded on to the base of the chassis. The square tube then goes through the sill with a plate welded to it on the outside and an inner plate held be the rivets. The jacking force being taken by the rollcage.

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Inside view of the jacking point

[Chris J]

Stephen

There's some serious exhaust pipe work in there?!!

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wish the gallery was working :)

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All fits a treat, :D :D

[mudhut]

I've similar jacking points to this, and they look to ba about the same size: 25mm square.

What jack have you used Stephen?

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I've similar jacking points to this, and they look to ba about the same size: 25mm square.

What jack have you used Stephen?


Bilstein Jack from a VW? Bought from ebay for £15 :D

[mudhut]

Thanks. Looks just the job: I'll keep an eye out.

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Stephen

There's some serious exhaust pipe work in there?!!



Great looking :) hope its sounds as good :D

[Chris J]

I've similar jacking points to this, and they look to ba about the same size: 25mm square.

What jack have you used Stephen?

Peter, make sure they're actually functional and not decorative!
Graham Bates will know for sure. I never used them because I've never seen the other side of the fibre glass.

[mudhut]

Gulp! I will get in touch with Graham. Thanks for the warning Chris!

[catswhiskers]

wish the gallery was working :)


Now I'm no expert but I dont think that's the best place for the alternator. :rolleyes:

I know, I'll get me coat. :D

Mick

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At Last, no more 60mile round trips to work on the thing :)
But still some challenges comment's on the following pictures of the backend (The car not the wife's) :D

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there is something amiss at the rear! The off side wheel sits much further out in the arch than the near side. Looking at old pictures of the car it may have always been like this but I am not sure. Any Allora owners noted they have a squint rear end. The lights sit off centre as well. I chopped the old hinge mounts off and made some new ones similar to the HAWK. However looking at the old ones again they are diffrent. One comes straight back from the chassis the other skew's to the nearside. :o Not sure whats going on.
Measured the suspension and chassis and its all straight but the body is most odd

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Closer shot of the sides

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The off side looks like this, with a lot more of the wheel/tyre showing :confused:

[strat6v]

Steve, i'm assuming rear tubular supports are fitted on accurately. Take a look at where the notches are in the underside of the tail, where the rear hinges fit. The rear end is sat over to the left, needs centralising in the notches.Probably have to redo the shut line.

[Swamprat33]

Hi Steve. The back end of my Corse is also out of alignement, but no where near as bad as yours. The chassis looks fine, just seems to be a bodwork issue.

Cheers

Tim

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Steve, i'm assuming rear tubular supports are fitted on accurately. Take a look at where the notches are in the underside of the tail, where the rear hinges fit. The rear end is sat over to the left, needs centralising in the notches.Probably have to redo the shut line.

Your partly right, the rear has to sit over to the left to allow the panel gap at the roof join to line up. If I sit it centre the rear body wont fit the roof line at all :confused:

Any Allora owners care to comment.
Keep the ideas coming please

Cheers
Stephen

[Sando]

Stevie was the back end repaired off the car, or did they have it on the car when it was patched up?
Maybe there was more put back than needed on that damaged side and moved the shut line forward.


.....Angle grinder should sort it out ;)

Keep at it mate, glad to see it coming together.

Rab

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Stevie was the back end repaired off the car, or did they have it on the car when it was patched up?
Maybe there was more put back than needed on that damaged side and moved the shut line forward.


.....Angle grinder should sort it out ;)

Keep at it mate, glad to see it coming together.

Rab

Hi Rab,
Well yes the back end was repaired off the car and yes its a real mess and will need redoing but the shut line across the roof was untouched in the accident and no repair work was carried out anywhere near there. Need to find a picture of the car from before its accident and taken from the rear.

Cheers
Stephen

[strat6v]

Can't tell because of my crappy monitor but has the paintwork been finished?
If not, add some glass onto the leading edge of the rear section, on the left or set the panel in place and trim a bigger shut line. Or maybe leave the shut line uneven, those supposedly 'in the know' may then be fooled into thinking it's an original :)

[Sando]

Remember this???? I think you had a bigger copy.
Some blokes opend his door right in the way though ;)
Rabster

[strat6v]

what? the rear section lining up? Don't pull his leg too much, you know how fiery Steve can be :D :D

[Sando]

I think there was a good pick of that side (before you got it and had the fight with the boy racer) in the allora thread that Chris J started???

Rab

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I think there was a good pick of that side (before you got it and had the fight with the boy racer) in the allora thread that Chris J started???

Rab

Thanks for the heads up on that Rab, the more I look at it the more i think that's the way it was pre accident. :rolleyes:

Chris J next time you see Dave can you look closely at the fit of his rear section on his Allora.

John< Fiery! I dont know what you mean - Have been called aggressive but my therapist says I am better now. They said it was eating too much Swiss cheese ;)

Cheers
Stephen

[David J]

My Allora suffers from the same condition as yours the drivers side rear tyre protrudes further outside the wheel arch than the left one. I had to pack up one of the rear section hinges to get it level with the roof line, it would appear the hinge mouldings/ mounting plates are not level.

If I remember correctly the original were moulds taken from the Scheldt Pettit Stratos which had been repaired resulting in the moulds not being perfect. The best side on my car is the drivers side, the passenger side lines are not perfect if you look at the bottom door line is goes slightly up hill. It should be level.

I can e-mail you some pictures of both side of my car, please let me known if you would like them.

David

[SUSIT]

My Allora suffers from the same condition as yours the drivers side rear tyre protrudes further outside the wheel arch than the left one. I had to pack up one of the rear section hinges to get it level with the roof line, it would appear the hinge mouldings/ mounting plates are not level.

If I remember correctly the original were moulds taken from the Scheldt Pettit Stratos which had been repaired resulting in the moulds not being perfect. The best side on my car is the drivers side, the passenger side lines are not perfect if you look at the bottom door line is goes slightly up hill. It should be level.

I can e-mail you some pictures of both side of my car, please let me known if you would like them.

David


Your a star young man :) Yes please on the pictures. Dont think it can be rectified without major surgery and well mines a rally car anyway. :rolleyes:

Cheers
Stephen