Hawk build manual

[Matt No VAT]

Anyone got one I could borrow temporarily so I can finish my car off? Or take a copy of?

Cash, beer whatever it takes!!

It would save me having to ask loads of daft questions on here!!

Plus I have bits for my car which totally confuse me - I think its because my car originally had Air-Con which I have now removed and hence have "extra" bits - so I need to identify which parts are part of the air-con installation and which bits are not!

Thanks in advance

[rutthenut]

Matt,

As you have offered to pay cash, you might as well ask Gerry for a copy. I believe he now has an electronic version (PDF) as well as plain printed copies.

I've not seen the updates, but I guess the content is still quite 'brief' as it is all done at a general level on the basis that there is no one standard build. It doesn't (didn't, anyway) cover the engine details at all, although the dash layout is included - not sure what area you particularly need to understand right now.

[chris.richard]

The copy I bought from Gerry (£25) in December is identical to the one supplied with the car I bought (1996) Brief it certainly is - it's not helping me work out what bits are missing!

[rutthenut]

I believe Gerry had some reworking done on the manual earlier this year, but I don't think the actual content has changed, just the layout in general and conversion to an electronic format so he can print it out rather than just photocopying the old master.

Admittedly, it doesn't provide much detail (at all), but I just thought that having some manual would be better than none at all.

By the way, what's the status of a build manual for the Litton/CAE kit - is/was there one of those and does it have any more detailed information?

[rutthenut]

Some of you, as members of the Stratos Replica Club, may be aware that efforts did go into creating a build manual for the kits. The intention - as I understood it at the initial club AGM on the topic - was for an add-on manual to be created which contained new content provided by club members, so that this would extend any existing manual(s) that came from the kit manufacturers.

This project ended up seriously stalled, even though club funds were used at one point to pay for content to be typed up. Unfortunately that was just that, using a typewriter and not an electronic format. More importantly, the information that was typed up was a straight copy of the Transformer/Hawk build manual. This is of course unacceptable (and illegal) from a copyright point of view. It was also a waste of club funds as the info already existed in printed form via Gerry. It seems, to me, that this was an individual effort to copy the Transformer manual and make it available to owners of other kits. That is not what was originally intended by the club when agreeing to the project.

Not too surprisingly, the build manual project didn't progress far at all. Some additional content was included, sourced from the SRC club newsletters over a period of a year or two. The uncompleted (and plagiarised) manual then went to another club member who expressed an interest in finishing it. Once handed over, the project was viewed as being somewhat 'difficult' due to both the copied content, the minimal extra stuff, and the amount that would still need doing. Hence it remained stalled.

At last year's AGM, I then offered to take the manual and work on getting it together, with the intention not of writing new stuff but of just cleaning up what was there and making it available to club members the following year. When I received the 'work in progress', I too was somewhat put out as the manual was not what had been initially represented.

As I have principles and also close links to Gerry, I could not condone the simple copyright breach of the original manual content - disregarding what others may think of that content. Hence I hoped to pull out the new content and make that available to the club. But as that was not done in an electronic form in this recreated manual, this would mean either scanning into image format or re-typing the content. If scanned, this would be little improvement over a photocopy and would not allow for further edits to be made, so I did not go that route.

Another point is that the the club-sourced information all seemed to come from newsletters that I put together during my post as editor, so I didn't fancy reworking it all some years later. In fact, Gerry did provide some of this information for the benefit of club members, but copying that particular content would not be wrong as it was provided for use in that way. Not so of the actual manual.

So, if any of you are wondering what has happened to the build manual, apologies for not delivering. Reason being that the work done so far did not seem to justify any more effort on my part. I can also throw in the 'too busy' argument too, if you want!

I would still like to go through the pages and sort out the stuff which can be distributed via the club, so maybe I will get around to that at some time in the coming months.

There were some particular features that will be of interest to club members. Of these, I recall that Guy did a good list of parts that can be sourced from other cars, plus alternatives available. This goes further than the list provided with the kit. Guy also included the paint codes as used on the original cars. There's also some stuff on electrics and fitting the body panels to the kit. This sort of thing is good for people working on a new kit, but much of it is little use to those with fully-built (or mostly-built) kits.



Anyway - I'll send this info on to the newsletter editor as my report on the topic, but thought I'd share my views in this forum as the topic does come up from time to time.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by rutthenut

By the way, what's the status of a build manual for the Litton/CAE kit - is/was there one of those and does it have any more detailed information?

John,

There is a quite detailed build manual for the Litton/CAE Corse, which was put together by Hugh Carson. It covers the build in quite good detail. Whether it is any better than the hawk manual, I cannot comment, as I have never seen a Hawk Build Manual.

However, like all kit car builds, all builders are going to take slightly different routes, and no too builds will ever by the same. I think contact with other builders who can offer advice is more important than any build manual, and regardless of whether you are building a Hawk or a Corse, you can tap into a wealth of prior knowledge, both here, and through the Stratos Replica Club.

John, access to your knowledge and advice, as you have being giving freely via this forum, are much more valuable than any build manual.


Originally posted by matt

It would save me having to ask loads of daft questions on here!!

I know some people will pause before posting, and might consider their questions to be daft, but don't be frightened to ask even daft questions - we've all had these situations in the past, and I hope eveyone on here will continue to help each other the way the first few months have gone (Thanks to everyone contributing to this forum)

[Stratos]

Originally posted by rutthenut
I would still like to go through the pages and sort out the stuff which can be distributed via the club, so maybe I will get around to that at some time in the coming months.

There were some particular features that will be of interest to club members. Of these, I recall that Guy did a good list of parts that can be sourced from other cars, plus alternatives available. This goes further than the list provided with the kit. Guy also included the paint codes as used on the original cars. There's also some stuff on electrics and fitting the body panels to the kit. This sort of thing is good for people working on a new kit, but much of it is little use to those with fully-built (or mostly-built) kits.



John,

I agree fully with your post on this subject.

Unfortunately, we haven't got our minutes from the SRC AGM yet, so you don't seem to be aware of the discussion at the AGM about this.

Mark Chapman and Chris Jarvis are currently working to put all the old newsletters onto a CD ROM in PDF format, and hope to have it completed by sometime in the autumn (Fall for our American members).

Apparently, new members will receive a copy of the CD when they join.

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Stratos
There is a quite detailed build manual for the Litton/CAE Corse, which was put together by Hugh Carson. It covers the build in quite good detail. Whether it is any better than the hawk manual, I cannot comment, as I have never seen a Hawk Build Manual.


I can confirm that the Hawk manual does not have a lot of content, hence it receives various 'complaints', which are generally quite justified. It's just that you need to look at this from the 'other side' too, as this is not the type of kit build where you can describe it as 'put bolt A into hole B, affix but C' and so on.

I'd rather have seen more detailed diagrams in the build manual for things such as the suspension assemblies, with the positions of spacers, washers, bushes and so on being clearly defined. From Gerry's point of view, this stuff seems quite obvious - having worked on the stuff for so many years. Once you've built, or re-assembled, one of the kits it also becomes quite clear. That doesn't help the first-time builders though, hence the complaints!

There is also the business point of view in that it would take quite a bit of time, effort and money to write a more detailed manual and this has to be offset against the number of kits sold and the margin on each. A couple of years ago, sales of Cobra replicas were subsidising the Stratos kits from Hawk Cars, so it would not have seemed worthwhile investing in newer manuals and the like.

John, access to your knowledge and advice, as you have being giving freely via this forum...

Thanks for the compliment, all info given is simply my opinion and may well be incorrect and not exactly 'knowledgeable' but I like to share views on this sort of thing in the light of my own experiences. That's what I like about the club environment, whether in personal meetings, club newsletters or the web forums (which get the quickest responses of all).

Hope I don't put people off too much with these lengthy replies though:eek:

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Stratos
Mark Chapman and Chris Jarvis are currently working to put all the old newsletters onto a CD ROM in PDF format, and hope to have it completed by sometime in the autumn (Fall for our American members).

Apparently, new members will receive a copy of the CD when they join.

That's great - hope the task isn't too daunting.

It also gets me out of my obligation to distribute the stuff done so far!!! Mind you, it wouldn't hurt if I were to pick out the more useful bits ahead of that time. We'll have to see who gets what done, and when.

Cheers all